Conversations With A New Vegetarian

Going Veg, Vegetarian Diet, Nutrition, Recipes, Cooking and More

Savvy Veg's Judy K and new veg Lori B talked over a two week period about going veg, diet, nutrition, recipes, organic food, gm food, cooking, beans, tofu, soy, sprouting, cultured vegetables, protein, crockpots, veg transition, vegan ethics, gardening and much more!

Lori is friendly, enthusiastic, thoughtful, articulate, and funny - I laughed, cried and cheered as she described her new vegetarian adventures. She tried vegetarianism 17 years ago, but couldn't continue - and she thinks that Savvy Veg is so full of useful information that she has virtually moved in. My favorite kind of visitor!

At some point it occurred to me these conversations could be helpful and entertaining for other Savvy Veg visitors, especially those going vegetarian for the first, second or third time. I hope you enjoy our veggie talks as much as I have - Judy K.

6.28.06: Beans, Soy, Going Veg, Transition

L.B.  Dear Judy, Thank you for sending me those veg reports so quickly - I really appreciate that and feel very lucky to have your website to help me with this transition.

J.K.   Thank you!!

L.B.  Until now, with the exception of one very brief attempt at vegetarianism many years ago, I've been consuming lots of animal stuff too. At this point, I just don't want to eat animals. Even more than for health reasons. Luckily, beans aren't new to my diet. I've always loved them and have never stayed away from them in spite of the farting that goes along with them.

Anyway, I hope I can stick to this and take your advice on going veg gradually. And I will mash those yummy beans up and eat a little less of them at one sitting so my tummy won't be so shocked. (See SV Report: Eat Beans Without Gas)

J.K.  Try different varieties - some beans are tolerated better by some people than others.

L.B.  The last time I tried the vegetarian thing I literally felt like I was going to blow up especially when I made a brown rice, beans, AND cheese combo. Maybe it was all too much.

J.K.  Reminds me of some of the things I ate when I first became vegetarian - when dried, they made great bricks!

L.B.   Also, as far as soy goes...I find what you have to say about it so very interesting because years ago this weird allergy blood test showed that I was allergic to soy. I don't know if I believe the results because I wouldn't be able to eat practically anything if it was accurate.

J.K.  Re soy: I find the traditional fermented whole soy products like tofu, tempeh, miso ok in moderation, and react to tvp, soy isolate etc.

L.B.  I really agree with your advice on a gradual transition but at the same time it scares me because I'm the type that will feel like I'm "cheating" if I don't do it vegan right out the gate. I hope I can reason with myself and change my mentality on that especially after reading your helpful advice.

J.K.   It's a very individual thing - you have to find your own comfort level. I'm about 90% vegan now, but don't want to strain for that last 10%.

L.B.  I'm looking forward to reading more of your reports and getting myself really familiar with this veggie stuff. I've been so drawn to vegetarianism for so many years now and finding your website will definitely help keep me going I can tell.

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6.29.06: Organic Produce, $$$, Pesticides, GM Foods

L.B.   Hi again Judy! I forgot to ask you something in my last email that I'm a bit concerned about. I wish I could buy organic produce but two things stand in the way - finances and availability. I live in the high desert in California and the one decent health food store has a very small produce department.

J.K.   Are there any conventional grocers you could request to bring in organic produce? Any farmers markets in the area? Have you thought of taking up gardening?

L.B.   Then there's the $$$ issue which I'm working on.

J.K.   Just do the best you can, while avoiding those things that are more loaded with chemicals, and also genetically modified. Check out these sites for food lists: Food News and True Food Now

L.B.   So what's my question you might be wondering? Well I guess I'm just worried if loading up on lots of conventionally grown veggies and fruits with all the yucky pesticides etc is not so healthy. (I guess not any worse than how I've been eating up til last Sunday - too much fast food and animal protein)

J.K.   Conventional over organic isn't ideal, but better than doing nothing! Avoid processed food as much as you can - check labels. Buy organic when you get a chance. Be a catalyst for change, but realize you can only do what you can do.

L.B.   Well I gotta say again how much I love your website. I've been on it everyday, looking at new stuff. There's so much to check out! It really makes this new path so much easier and way more fun than 17 years ago when I gave it a go. (Holy cow, time sure flies...)

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6.30.06: Organic Food, GM Food,Spinach, Farmers Market, Gardening

L.B.  Thank you so much for the information & suggestions. I immediately checked out those links. I had no idea all the foods that are gm - scary! And I don't think I'll be able to eat regular spinach again. Vons and Albertsons do have a really small organic section (even smaller than BJ's health food store) and just for the heck of it I'm going to ask Stater Bros (that's where we shop) about bringing in organic and see what they say. For now, I'll just tell my boss they must give me a raise so I can buy organic produce. Hee hee, just kidding.

J.K.   Good idea! You probably deserve a raise anyway!

L.B.   Seriously, somehow I'm going to figure out a way to at least get organic spinach and the stuff on the high chemical list. Where there's a will there's a way, right? Hopefully my husband won't cause too much of a fuss. Oh, there is a farmers market up here on Thursdays but I don't think anything was organic. I'll check again to see if I'm remembering right.

J.K.   Farmers' market produce may not be officially organic, but a lot of peole don't use chemicals, or very little.

L.B.   And as far as gardening goes, I'm growing tomatoes but I think the adorable quail are feasting on them. What is in your veggie garden?

J.K.   The adorable bugs and bunnies feast on my greens. They especially love the basil. Green beans and cukes are reluctant to appear. Peas are late. Tomatoes are in good shape. Squash is coming along.

L.B.   Gardening is very challenging out here in the desert compared to LA where I moved from a year ago.

J.K.   Gardening is challenging anywhere!

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7.2.06: Organic Veggies, Cultured Veggies, Ethics, Allergies

L.B.   Just wanted to let you know I was at Albertsons this morning buying birthday cake for two co-workers and much to my surprise they had nice big bags of organic baby spinach AND potatoes AND celery and a bunch of other stuff!!! I was so excited my heart skipped a beat! I guess I didn't look close enough before. Just wanted to fill you in....

J.K.   Yay! Amazing isn't it? When we put our attention on something, how it manifests?

L.B.   Yes it is!!! And BJ's, the health food store that I thought only had a tiny little produce section, has plenty of stuff too. So...availability is not a problem. I have a couple questions for you....

Have you ever tried cultured veggies? You can make them youself, which I'd like to do at some point, but I order them from Immunitrition when I can squeeze it in. They are so yummy. I like the Sea Blend the best.

J.K.   I haven't eaten cultured veggies, unless you count pickles, or olives in brine. But I'll look into it. I like sprouting.

L.B.   You mentioned that you're about 90% vegan. Does that mean you occasionally eat dairy or eggs? I don't mean to be nosy, I'm just curious. I did eat a little dairy, but not much. And the soy stuff seems to be fine so far.

J.K.   I occasionally eat dairy and egg.

L.B.   Well, today marks a week of no animal flesh. It was really pretty effortless. I was just thinking the other day that when you take away the seasoning from steak, chicken, fish, etc...it all tastes gross anyway.

J.K.  True! Beans and tofu without oil, spices or sauces are also unappealing, but much less so in my opinion!

L.B.   It really puzzles me that the blood test I had years ago said I was allergic. Hmmm. It's something about the IgE something or other. It also said I was allergic to rice which really seems bogus to me. And green beans. Phooey!

J.K.   Go with your gut!

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7.5.06: Basic Recipes, Cooking, Sprouting, Tofu, Quinoa

L.B.   Hello Judy! I just want to tell you that your website and emails are such awesome support. Thank you! I was wondering if your site has sample meal plans for the beginner?

J.K.  We don't, mainly because we haven't had time to do that. It's on the list though! We suggest other foods to go with most of our recipes, with links to other recipes at the bottom of the page. Also, check out SV's basic recipes.

There's an easy, excellent cookbook I recommend - 'The Vegetarian 5-Ingredient Gourmet' by Nava AtlasShe includes menus and nutritional summaries with each recipe, and there are lots of tofu recipes, plus tempeh and seitan.

I know there are so many options and I feel relatively well informed on the basics but it's a little overwhelming and it would be so helpful to have it sort of "spelled out" while starting this new path.

J.K.  You aren't the only one! I'm working on a vegetarian cooking report, which is quite a challenge, because there's so much to cover! I'm aiming not just at the beginning veg, but the non-cooks. It may turn out to be an ebook. In our fast food culture, cooking has become almost a lost art, because of convenience foods, and no time. But when you go veg, being able to cook for yourself is a big factor in whether or not you succeed. Time is the major challenge for most people.

L.B.   By the way, as far as cultured veggies go, I tried some by Rejuvenative Foods (available at Whole Foods) years ago and they are not nearly as tasty as the ones by Immunitrition in my opinion. Raw cultured veggies have lots of good bacteria for our intestinal tract. They're rather smelly (like sauerkraut) but it's so easy to acquire the taste. I got to the point where I actually craved them. How cool that you sprout. That's another thing I've been wanting to check out.

J.K.   Some good sprouting resources in this SV Article: Joy of Sprouting

L.B.   I definitely need to start practicing some tofu recipes.

J.K.  Take a look at SV's basic tofu section for tips and simple recipes.

L.B.   I bought some tofu that was already baked and marinated and I have to say it didn't go down too easily. I refuse to be discouraged, though. (I would much rather eat tofu than another animal, that's for dang sure.) Luckily, I love every kind of bean out there. Oh, check out "cosmic quinoa salad" on the internet. I stumbled onto that recipe a couple months ago and it's very delicious. I think I like it a lot because the dressing has lemon instead of vinegar.

J.K.  Thanks! I found several versions of quinoa salad. Looks good! I'll tweak a bit and come up with a Savvy Veg quinoa salad recipe

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7.10.06: Recipes, Guilt, Challenges, Restaurants, Crockpots

L.B.   Hi Judy - Geez, you have sooo many recipes I want to try! I was on your site just now and saw your quinoa salad recipe which I can't wait to try (almost like mine but way more goodies in it, what a super idea) and the spinach lasagna - yum yum, does that ever sound tasty.

Well it's been two weeks now and it's still going pretty good. I feel kind of guilty when I eat dairy but I really think your first tip of doing this transition gradually is the only way I won't throw in the towel. I just can't do it as gradual as you suggest, however, because I'm afraid that if I just "cut back" on eating animals (eek), I won't ever do it or I'll feel too guilty when I do or I'll just go back to the way I way eating before and forget this whole vegetarian thing.

J.K.   Fortunately, there is no one 'right way' to go veg. You have to go with your gut, literally and figuratively. Please don't guilt yourself. Whatever you do in the vegetarian direction is way better than before. 50% of something always beats 100% of nothing!

L.B.  Actually, I can't say forget because I really feel like I'm supposed to do this since I've been drawn to it for so long. So, I'm sure that if I do go back to my old eating habits, it will only be a matter of time before I give this another try. I sure don't want to give up, though.

J.K.  I like your attitude! For sure going veg isn't an all or nothing proposition, and some days, or weeks or months are easier than others. It's completely normal to go back and forth a bit at first, even for quite a few years. And more than a few people are veg when it's easy, semi-veg when it's not. Evolution never goes in a straight line!

L.B.  Some of the challenges are: my husband isn't about to give up meat-chicken-pork etc (even though he's an animal lover too, hmmmm) so I'm having to cook my vegetarian stuff just for me which is a little tricky. Leftovers are great and all but most recipes seem to be for at least four.

J.K.  L., Did you get the veg-nonveg report, about vegetarians living and eating with non vegetarians? I'll attach it for you. It helps if you make something you both can eat, with the non-veg having animal protein on the side, and the veg having veg protein. For example, a salad, with feta cheese, beans, hard boiled egg, or chicken pieces optional. Or a veggie/grain casserole, with beans for the veg and whatever for the non-veg.

Also, it's a great time saver to make a stew or soup or casserole, and freeze individual portions to reheat as part of a meal. Or freeze nonveg versions for your omnivore. Or a big pot of beans to freeze in small portions and add to things. I know frozen food and leftover food isn't optimal nutrition, but it beats not eating!

L.B.  And I gotta get that cookbook you've recommended - the one that uses only 5 ingredients in the recipes. Even though I love to cook, I don't always have the time or money to make extravagant stuff. I sure wish I did!

Nava Atlas's 5 Ingredient Vegetarian Gourmet Cookbook was written for people like you. The recipes taste good and work well, because Nava is a fantastic cook, as well as a super busy person. I'd love to have time to make all my own food fresh from scratch, but then I wouldn't have time to do anything else, and that would be depressing! Life seems to be all about trade-offs.

L.B.  How fun it will be to practice when I can, though. Then the other biggie is that restaurants around here are not very veggie friendly. This weekend we were in Lake Arrowhead and I do have to admit that every place we considered having lunch did have a veggie burger of some sort on the menu so I can't say there was nothing to choose from. I just wish there were lots more places that really embraced vegetarianism/veganism and had tons of stuff to pick from on their menus.

J.K.  The restaurant thing is a problem all right. I'm lucky to live in a town with a large population of veg and semi-veg who all seem to eat out, so there's lots of veg restaurants, but I recently spent 6 years living in a meat and potatoes town. It was quite an adventure to eat out. We did best at ethnic restaurants - Chinese, Thai, Mexican, Indian (best actually, but too hot/spicy!) They can still only approximate vegetarian food. I learned not to get into too much detail with them about the ingredients. I'd just order the most likely looking things on the menu, ask the cook to leave out the onions and msg, order tofu or refried beans, and hope for the best.

Restaurants will be more veg friendly if people demand it - they figure that if one person requests something, there must be 10 more silent people out there who'll order it. So go ahead - be a pain in the ass! And pray for someone to open a vegetarian restaurant.

L.B.  Well, it's time for din din. I made some black eyed peas in the crockpottoday.

J.K.  Crockpots (and pressure cookers) are very useful items for the time and money challenged - that's most of us!

L.B.  Lesson learned: NEVER forget to wash your hands after cutting jalapenos!!!! Yikes, I rubbed my face and hours later it is still burning like crazy! I've done that any number of times! If you immediately wash with lots of water and rub on aloe vera, it helps. If you get it in your eyes, flush with lukewarm water for about 5 minutes

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7.11.06: Challenges, Inspiration, Vegetarian Protein

L.B.  Thanks so much for such a quick and helpful response to my mail about the challenges I'm facing. Whenever I get your mail it just inspires me that much more to keep at it and not give up. Finding your website has been such a blessing these past two weeks. I learn so many new things each day I check it out.

J.K.   Thank you!

Another question I have for you that I keep forgetting to ask. It's about the typical fear of getting enough protein. Even though I know it's very easy to get enough on a veg diet, I was just curious if you make sure you get a certain amount each day in grams?

J.K.   Protein! That's a big one. 10 - 15% of calories as protein is recommended for most people, according to the US RDA's. You can do ok with less. It's whole grains that people really need lots of, for the vitamins, minerals, and fiber that you don't get anywhere else. Here's an SV article about vegetarian protein.

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7.12.06: More Protein, Cultured Veggies, Fried Tofu, Hypoglycemia, Vegetarian Cooking

L.B.  Most of the info I read regarding protein (even veg sources) seem to say the same thing as far as "grams per day" goes - approx 1/2 your body weight or 60 grams - give or take a few depending on one's weight. I like the 15-20 grams you suggest much better.

J.K.  If you go with the weight ratio analysis for Americans, someone who weighs 130 lb would supposedly need 47 grams a day of protein. But I've noticed that people from other countries do very well on much less protein. And aren't nearly as likely to be obese. And that vegetarians who eat a balanced diet with a lot of whole grains, vegetables, nuts, etc also do fine with less protein. They may be skinnier than average, but they have healthy hearts.

It's challenging to figure out protein on a vegetarian diet, because everything has protein. Some grains like quinoa and oats are quite high in protein. Even fruit has protein.

This is just my opinion of course, but I honestly think it isn't worth worrying about how much protein you're getting. If you're getting enough calories, and eating a nutritionally balanced diet, then chances are very good that you're getting enough protein, probably more than enough.

Vesanto Melina in 'Becoming Vegetarian' says, "Scientists have established recommended intakes which include a minimum (protein) requirement and a generous margin of safety (because people differ metabolically, and because proteins differ in composition and digestibility)"

L.B.  I hate to get sucked into that supposed protein dilemma anyway. I'd much rather focus on eating lots of whole grains, VEGGIES, etc instead of worrying so much about protein. I think one of the reasons I'm concerned is because I was diagnosed with hypoglycemia about 10 years ago and it's ingrained in my head to eat lots of protein to keep my blood sugar stable.

J.K.  I've heard that with hypoglycemia you're supposed to eat frequent small meals that include protein. I don't know if that means 'lots of protein' or just 'frequent protein'. Anyway, I also understand that complex carbs maintain stable blood sugar even better, particularly whole grains. Quinoa would be good for that, I'd think.

L.B.  Anyway, I'm so curious if you've had a chance to read up on cultured veggies yet. I hate to be a pest, it's just that I really think you'll love them. (Do you like sauerkraut?) I haven't ordered any in awhile for financial reasons but I really miss them especially now that I've gone veggie. Go to Immunitrition to see the ones I think are so yummy.

Tonight I'm trying the fried tofu recipe from your site. Oh, that brings up another question I've been meaning to ask... how long can I keep my tofu in the fridge as long as I change the water every day? It's taking me awhile to get thru the whole package as I'm the sole tofu eater in the house!

J.K.   Tofu will keep up a week or more in the fridge if you change the water daily. Some people also freeze it. Although I don't like the changes in texture and color, some think it makes tofu more 'meaty' in look and feel. I think that's a bit of a stretch! I haven't had a chance to research cultured veggies, but it's on the list too - sounds like a good article topic!

L.B.  I have so many more questions and comments for you, I just don't want to bombard you all at once!

J.K.  Keep 'em coming - this is very entertaining. By, the way, you've inspired me to add a vegetarian cooking section to the main directory on the home page. I have a lot of material to put in there. So it'll be recipes, articles, advice, resources, blog ... and vegetarian cooking, and yes, it'll include menus, meal plans, and basic info about ingredients and cooking methods. I'll get to it asap - I consider this top priority, but it's going to be a big project!

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7.13.06: Veg Cooking, Leather, Animal Testing, Guilt, Resting, Relaxing, Being Yourself

L.B.  I am soooo excited about your new vegetarian cooking section! I can't wait!

J.K.  Me too! The good fairies are pretty booked though. Look for it in a couple of months.

L.B.  Well, I just wanted to let you know that the fried tofu turned out so tasty last night. I may have gone a little too heavy on the Bragg's Liquid Aminos but that stuff sure makes a difference!

Here's another question I have for you. What is your opinion about wearing leather and such?

J.K.  I avoid leather but have to wear breathable materials, and footwear that works with orthotics, also don't want to buy shoes online, so it's a challenge.

L.B.  And do you make sure that the products you use were not tested on animals?

J.K.  Yes, plus organic and herbal -- I only buy store brands when I know I can trust their ingredients - or natural soaps made by people I know. My daughter makes herbal potions sometimes, like face cream, tooth powder, herbal hair rinse, teas - she's a big fan of Rosemary Gladstar.

L.B.  I'm asking these things because my main motivation for becoming veg is my love for animals. Which brings up the whole guilt thing. Your advice is so helpful, though, about 50% of something being better than 100% of nothing. That really nails it on the head for me because I tend to have an all or nothing mentality - I gotta work on that one!

J.K.  Yes, us type A's have it hard! Hammers running around looking for nails. My thing is that I only have so much time and energy, and I have a lot to do, so I have to spend my energy where it'll do me the most good. Food is high on the list, but being rested and relaxed is number one. But not everybody is like me. And that's a good thing! What could be better for you than being yourself?

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SV Articles On Related Topics

Confessions Of An Obsessive Organic Gardener Non-GMO Articles Rosemary Gladstar Family Herbal Organic Food; What Is It, And Why Should We Eat It? Sustainable Living - How To Be Good and Stay Sane

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